Border Talks
As you know, in our Area Classes this week and last, you have taken part in a United Nations simulation activity. The challenge has been to take on a role at a UN meeting and to create a peace treaty between two nations in conflict. We have found that many of the issues in the simulation are of current concern in various locations around the world. 'Border' issues is one such example: in the news this week, there has been much talk about the security of the American / Mexican border. The Wikipedia article on this topic is linked to the right; it provides excellent background information for you. After reading it (and perhaps checking out some of the current news of this week), what are the similarities/ differences between the current US / Mexico border issue and the border issues raised in our simulation activity?
posted by Ms Watt @ 5:23 PM
65 comments
65 Comments:
The problems are quite similar to the ones discussed in the Gr 7 Tuesday class. We got money from the UN to help inforce our "friendly" boarder, and they obviously also didn't have enough money to properly gaurd it. They both also have problems with people invading.
That's all I have time for for now.
It is strange how the countries agree on a border and then years later want to change. Things might always be changing but like we have talked about before it is easier to prevent a problem than to fix it in most cases. I guess that new problems come up and it might be better another way. It is sort of like the way you can't follow old rules becuase they don't make sense and apply to modern ages.
Thinking of this though makes me relise why in debates, for example what we did in the classroom, people really have to stand up for what they think is best. Although everyones oppinion can never be accomodated, representitives have to think about the future and mabey how not getting their way can cause problems later on. I bet if we always thought ahead we could forsee and avoid alot of them. Mabey that is something governments should spend more time doing. Insted of spending all their time fixing problems, they should prevent them. I know they do that a bit but mabey it is time to take it to the next level...
There does need to be some change to the issue at hand but if they go out there and put out as much money as they did on Canada it would be just wasting money. In the world that we live in today people are going to be able to find ways to cross thte border. Yet if you do put up a stronger border it will limit the amount. It depends how much money the awesome president george bush is willing to spend
That was a very interesting and well thought up point by anonymous (response #3)I think it is true we spend so much money on our border in Canada and it's only made a slight difference. Half of the times you cross the border they don't do any check. People are still passing illegaly on our border. I don't think Bush should spend as much tiem and money on the border. Yet he should still look into it. Our class on Wednesday class didn't have much of a talk on border protection. That was an amazing point by anonymous. THANK YOU
I thought I just might point this out...
It only makes sense for the U.S. to protect their southern border, and their northern one for that matter, as they currently are at war, and, with it being easy for potential terrorists to gain easy access through both Mexico and Canada illegally Protecting their borders with troops or Government Task Force Police (GTFs) is just a saftey measure that must be taken, and seems logical... BUT, most of the illegal aliens of those ~1,000,000 are simply Mexican citizens, who, having extremely poor and cruel living and working conditions, want to escape to the freedom of the U.S., and aren't actually doing any harm- the undefended border is doing justice to those who deserve it, but leaving it undefended puts the U.S. in a "sticky" situation, to say the least.
So, then waht do you do?
It's just like the war on terrorism itself... almost everybody hates George Bush because he started war and many have lost their lives. Outright, I don't believe it is ethical to fight. But once you start to think, how else our we to get rid of terrorists? They live to provoke war and to destroy and fight, and with them being secretive, how else can you get to them than by duking it out in warfare? We live in interesting times, and we can only hope that in this age ouar leaders make the correct decisions. Bush himself isn't a bad president, and basically any Bush-hater can't give a good reason to hate him... he was simply faced with a challenging decision, and had to make a choice that may very well would be inevitable anyway, and with this border issue, he is yet again challenged. Just pray that he makes a decision for ultimately good. This won't be an easy decision to make, or a joy ride for many, either.
Long- winded, I know, I know...
Rocking On,
"Postman" Craig
Just a clarification on my last post- I'm not at all for illegal immigration, it's highly disorganized and irratic, but what I was trying to say is that Most of the Mexican population are too poor to purchase passports, or the government won't allow them to.
Therefore, they can only emmigrate illegally, they only way to better living conditions, they hope (not always, as per demonstrated by the Wal-Mart video.)
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
I disagree with Postman Craig and how he said that illegal immigrants aren't causing problems. Under American law it states to come to live in America all you have to do is sign a couple of sheets. There soing this for the safety of all American citizens. Yes out of 100,000 illegal immigrants only one might be a terrorist or a criminal. But what is that criminal going to do to all of those other citizens. Yest I do agree that Bush needs to strengthen the border but he doesn't need to go out and put the entire US Army there. As you can see in Canada it isn't even making a difference. Personally I don't understand why they don't just sign the paper. And I hope Bush sees this and makes the correct decision which he always does.
After all, the two stories are similiar. By which I meant that the problem is between two countries. But of course, there are many detailed differences: The problem is different, the way to solve is different.
It's okay if you disagree with me. BUT you said you can't see why people can't sign a sheet of paper. For us, we get those all the time throught school, etc. But in Mexico, the government really doesn't want their citizens to leave, and most are disallowed to even register for U.S. citizenship while in Mexico, and cannot afford to buy a passport; people who live in mud huts aren't really able to fork out the $80 to do so.
After doing some more searching around, I found that the probably chance of a terroist among 100,000+ immigrants is about 1,135 to 1. I'm not so adept when it comes to probability, but I think I can tell when there's a slim chance. And another thing- remember that the U.S. has most of it's army in the East. They're not gonna pull 'em out for border patrol. I'll agree with you that a lesser crowd control unit seems within more reason (aka police,) as most immigrants are civillians. If they're is a terrorist, I put my trust in them getting him surrounded and on the groud befor he can fire a trigger or somehow pull the fuse on a bomb- infested vehicle- or himself. If one even comes.
As for Diamond- Very different situations with very different outcomes, but still a tale of two worlds, and a sub- plot revolving around the Al-Quadia and other Eastern Terrorist regimes.
Rocking On,
"Postman" Craig
P.S. How many of you are from 7/8 Wednesday class, eh?
I personally disagree with George Bush for putting a huge boarder around his own country. In class we talked about the world living as one. By doing so, Bush simply is saying that he wants to have control over an "individual" country. I believe what Bush should do now is to improve Mexican working conditions, so that Mexicans can afford to immgrant legally. Not to shut himself out, which doesn't solve the problem but only to make it worse. Which, of course, also solve the terrist problem because there will be less illegal immigrants.
P.S. I'm in Tue class
I think that one of the similairities between the activity we did last week is that obviously we want to prevent poeple from crossing the border, BUT there's a big difference here. First of all, in our case we wanted to prevent poeple from crossing BOTH borders and into Both countries, so we wanted to ensure the secuirity of Both countries. In this case, it's only the U.S. that wants to strengthen it's secuirity. Another difference is that we were concerned about illegal crossers mailnly because we were afraid of REBEL groups. A GOAT Herder got killed because of wanting to cross the border of U.S. The actions that we wanted to take in our peace treaty were reasonable, but in this case it's kind of pathetic! I mean, here we have two countries beside eachother. One is the richest in the world, while the other is so poor and 3rd world, that its poeple seemingly hate living in it and want to live somewhere else. It's really sad and heartbreaking when I think of it. I can't even imagine wanting to leave my country because it doesn't have good enough conditions for the living of its real poeple,but for its tourists! If I were President Bush, instead of wasting my money on such things like strengthening the border's secuirity, I'd donate some money to Mexico, so not as many poeple would want to cross illegally anyway! Just like anonymous #3 said, they'll always find another way to cross.
I know that President Bush has many enemies and that he has to strengthen the borders, but first of all, not all of them are terrorists, and if he wants to ensure the safety of his country, he can simply quit bieng at war so much, and be peaceful like Canada, which many poeple consider the country of freedom and peace, I mean Canada harddly has any enemies.
Addressed to Sapphire:
There's no doubt how pathetic the situation is. As much as I would like it to be that governments would try and rebuild their country with donations, remember where Mexico stands economically. There're a farming/manufacturing superpower, and yet third world. Look at where we have slave labour in the rest of the world. 3rd world. Now look at the leaders of the country. Look at the richest people in the richest people in the world. Put a couple things together and those countries ae bringing LOTS of cash on a payroll. So then why are the people so poor? The leaders have the power, and they have the power to dictate where the money goes. So guess where it goes? To them. Same goes for Middle-East oil barons. How about Africa? 34.6% of all donations go to the people? Where does the rest of it go? Kept by the government. Mexico is no exception. Third world countries often have corrupt, powerful leaders making back room dealings with major European and American (as in North American) companies. If we give 'em money to fix 'em up, where will that go? They have money to do things. They are simply succumbing to their greed and not giving to people who need it.
Okay, major point: If Mexican denizens had money, they would stay put, for the most part. If the leaders put the money where it should be, then we wouldn't have terrorists crossing anyway. But that's not happening. The only way anything will change in third world countries as if people like us with talents go in there and actually try to build up the country, boycott the leaders, instead of just saying "donate money, let the country do the work." It's illogical to say that- If the country's leaders actually cared about their citizens, they would do something for them. But they aren't, so if we give them money, how can we expect them to?
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Addressed to Sapphire:
Quote: "...he can simply quit bieng at war so much, and be peaceful like Canada..."
We have all got a negative feeling towards Bush because he "started a war." Let's face the facts. Quit being at war so much. If your talking about the number of wars, there's only been one. If you're talking about length, think about how long historical wars have been. Did Bush actually start the war because one day he decided it would be a good idea to funk around in the east? NO! He was provoked to- just think about logically in his shoes: You just had Al-Quada smash the World's trade center in your country, as well your military headquarters, the Pentagon. There was a failed flight for your capital building, the White house. You just had a group of terrorists attempt to wipe out major targets in your country To do what in the future? An invasion? A Thermonuclear war? We may never know now, but that's probably a good thing. YOU JUST HAD A GROUP OF LEATHAL MILITANTS JUST TRY TO KNOW YOU OUT! What do you think you would do to protect your country and the lives of undeserving citizens. Try to knock out those who had killed thousands, and guess how you do that? War. It would be great if you could peace talk with them. But who says that a secretive band of terrorists with an unknown point of operation are gonna leisurely stroll into a UN council room and talk things over.
And what if you say, oh, bummer, and those were my favorite buildings in the country, too. It's not like these guys are going to go away. It's unfortunate that war had to break out, I'll garuntee it 1,000% that Bush is killing himself for starting a war, and he's living in the pale moonlight right now. But how else are you going to stop these guys from killing other inccocent people around the world? And what if you did nothing? They'd come back. Again. And again. And then they'd hit another country here. And there. And more people are going to die than if you stopped it now, anyway. It was inevitable that these guys had to be stopped. It was a question of when we are going to have to deal with them, unfortunately, the bloody way. It's not like Bush was aggressively going out to bomb the planet for his gain. He gathered people who said, I'll give my life to protect 1,000 others, and prevent the threat of terrorists from our planet in a major way. Did people die? Yes. Did as many die as it could have been possible to? No. Did most who die were willing to in order to save others? Yes. Do I like war. No. Do you like war? No How many others in this city like war? This country? This continent? This world? So, do you think Bush wants war? Does he really have an alternative? You said Canada was peaceful. Aren't we helping him? Isn't the UK, Germany, and other European Countries in there as Peacekeepers? Isn't creating peace in the East by getting rid of the militants really what this is all about?
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
To Postman Craig:
Of course no one likes war on this
planet, BUT how do you know that Bush doesn't just want oil from Middle East countries. "Clean the terrists?"- a total excuse. Why the other countries help? Because they want some oil too. I agree with saphire on that we should gave Mexico some money, so that the Mexicans could have afforded a pastport. As for government corrup,
we should go down there and gave the money right to their hands.
Directed to postman craig
Okay! Now, I didn't know that some poor countries acctually have rich leaders.(I'm not into politics.) I had heard of it though, but I think you're right. Wow! Those kind of leaders sure make me go nuts. Like you said, we can't just talk about this kinda stuff, we gotta go there and try to PREVENT these things from happening. Take action not talk. I wonder why its poeple aren't protesting?
I disagree with postman craig and agree with diamond. I don't think that President Bush is at war just because of the safety of his citezens. Why? Because during these years, I have heard of sooooo many innocent RESIDENTS of Iraq or where ever it is get killed or have their lives destroyed. I mean, almost the whole country is ruined! The terrrists did a HORRIBLE thing, and deserve to pay back for what they,ve done, but should we destroy the safety of others in order to gain the safety of our own? Also, about the crossing borders, I just don't think we should even HAVE borders! Then all the problems would be solved! Why have different countries in the first place when they can't help but fight like 2 year olds? If we didn't have borders then the whole world would care about the WHOLE thing, not just the section they live in. We could travel where ever we want and it'd be better if we didn't have presidents either, just elected Peace makers from each religion. Then the presidents wouldn't suck all the money in for themselves either.
Addressed to Diamond and Sapphire:
On Bush wanting oil, Iraq and Afganistan certainly have reserves, but President Bush (along with the United Nations) personally restricted the sale and export of thier crude oil to any other country. Sone may say that he did this as an invasion set-up, I believe that to be a leader one must be cunning and logical, as most are. They have good reasoning behind their decisions, even if their intention is evil. Well, anyway, being that Bush isn't as stupid as media tells you he is, if he desperately wanted that oil, he would appeal to the UN to re-open the export
privilages, and would have negotiated with the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, and he would have SAVED a whole lot of deaths that way.
In other words, I wouldn't bet too high on that being his reasoning for the war.
Citizens have died in war; those who killed them intentionally (of which there were very few) are referred to as "war criminals," for destroying innocent targets. A war crime lands you in lifetime jail with no parole unless you are living under capital punishment, which is basically disbanded now.
It's well beyond unfortunate that civillians have died, so much in fact that it's proof of how horrible the terrorist regimes actually are. In case you've noticed,
all the major fighting hath taken path in urban centres where there are people. The terrorists purposly strike there because they wish to make the English- speaking soldiers adn governments look bad for firing off shots and nailing civillians. The nyou see on the news about terrorists setting off bombs in cars and in cities. You'll notice that there's no mention of any soldiers who died in the explosion. Put 2 and 2 together and you get that Al-Quaida's attacking civillian targets purposely, they're sacrificing there own native people to freak ou the Anglosaxon countries outta there. All the citizens have died at the hands of the Terrorists trying to kill them, and yet they say that they are "fighting for their country." What does this tell you?
It's also hard to speak about a war zone when you've never expirienced one. If you've seen at least footage, you can see the kinda dust that's thick in the air once a duel is engaged, and, to be truthful, having relatives serving there, they do a whole lotta fighting at night, making pretty darn near impossible to actually see who you're aiming at. And with it being city streets, there's normal people there, and they get shot, especially with how hard it is to hit the target you're actually aiming at (go ask a WWII or Viatnam veteran for a more detailed explanation like I got.) I'm not calling this acceptable. It's one of the worst things to happen. I just have the facts.
Giving money into Mexico's hands- as long as we also are there to see that they use it like an older sibling or parent. How about going there and get 'er done along with them? The peopel would be grateful for that. We do this for a little while then let them be for a little while. We come back after they were on there own and check their progress. If the government doesn't get anything done, they'll know the are in bing trouble, and we may call the UN to do something about that government. How about we give the leaders the honor of living with the people for a short while and see how the power of vision can change one's heart. My personal opinion here, but I don't think that it ain't too shabby an idea.
I have a word for you naysayers... C'mon, C'mon...
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Addressed to Sapphire and Diamond:
This next discussion topic required a whole new post because I realized how long my other ones were getting. :) It is about borders and goes deep within my realm of theological reasoning. Brace yourselves, fellow comrades!
Borders are a hindrence to society. N'est pas de ifs, and, OR buts. No one can argue wih that. This board was started over border talks, and look at all the trouble they give us. There's no real way they help us.
As a race, we are the most intelligent beings on our planet. (I like Sci-Fi.) Throughout history, we have developed tool, devices, and we have improved upon those.As a race, we ae in constant pursuit of a way to live better. We also adapt ourselves in a sense, too. Differnet cultures have surfaced on this earth which are all decisively human, but are all very differnt, because those cultures were builded (correct in olde English) around what they had in their area of land they began with. In a sense, we "evolve."
This evolution process is not a Darwin idea (I think he's a fraud, but let's NOT go there.) It means that we look back to what has happened and attempt to better ourselves from that. Borders were made originally to keep one to thereself, not having to worry about fighting with others. You had your space, and no problems in in.
But then we learned how to trave more effectively. We could go around the world to anyplace we so wished. We got to see all the neat places other than ours.
So, we said, I'll go live over there in their territory under their rule because I like their land. So we did.
But otheres didn't want to live under another person's rule- but they still wanted the land. So they came and took it.
This has happended time and time again. We fight.
But now we know that most of us hate fighting. We want a better solution. We don't want troubles with borders.
Our society is progressively advancing towards being a global society- everyone equal, everyone connected, a vast community as one giant cultural mosaic. We learned taht that was the only way to solve problems with racism and other issues similar.
But we also realize that a major leap forward to such a state requires bring down borders- literally. Being an optimistic (because I saw a Star Trek episode,) I personnaly believe that we will reach this. But we see how long it's taking to get rid of anti- global community issues. And we still jhave many more problems to fix. And that's what some are attempting to do. And then they inspire others. And the some becomes many. And the many becomes all.
It's written in stone in my books that this will be the future. By future, it will probably be a long time to come. Maybe not while I walk this earth. But It will happen.
My view, hope you share it! If not, who anm I to say?
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Why can people get so angry about land?? I mean sure protecting the county is really important but I still think that sometimes we, as a country, could be a more forgiving and a litte less snappy. I also agree with elisa when she says that it's strange that ppeopl agreed to something at one point but later come back and say that evrything should be changed to his/her point of view.
I also think that people should be content with whatever they have INSTEAD of causing wars. For example I've heard romours that the U.S. is going to invade mexico and try to basically "steal" land. That is unfair!! I mean how much land do they want??
Ockay postman-craig! You should really be a politician when you grow up. I don't have much knowledge about these kinds of issues, but I sure do have lots to say about what you said. Don't worry it's not all disagreement. I also agree with anomynous.(the last comment) Anyways I can't talk right now but stay tuned.....
I do agree with postman craig that one day all the boarders will be brought down, and the whole world(at least on esarth) will be free to live anywhere (may-be we'll have boarders around planets or galaxies!). About the U.S. fighting in the Middle East, may-be like you said, they went there for a good reason, but Bush certainly didn't do good job cleaning up. I think Iraq needs a dictator to control the tribal groups, because so far the demoncratic U.S. haven't even set up a government yet - totally out of Bush's expectation.
Well, Anonymous, I do believe that we'll be safe for now and that rumours of invading Mexico are probably just that. But we maybe should keep that in mind.
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
P.S.: I thought that this might be relevant: One of the World trade towers officially re-opened again.
I know for a fact that the Greatest American President ever will make the right decision. George BUsh never ever let's the country down. Unlike Charles Logan in the television program 24. What ever Bush does will be the correct decision. THANK YOU America for electing Bush.
Leave it up to Simon (also known as Anonymous, Butcher Sam and Simoncrates) to be pro-Bush! I think we need someone around here to think that way!
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Thank you Craig!
When i've been reading there has been some discussion on war. All though most of you will disagree with me my theory is you need war to have peace. Yes it is sort of an oxymoron but postman Criag also touched on it. He said how Bush decided to have a war. I agree. If there is a nation that is threatening to have a war you want to end those threats quickly and peacefully. Throughout history there has always been war from the war of Macedonia to the 100 years war to the Napoleonic war to World War 1 there has always been war. That is something htat will never change. Everybody hates Bush so much just because he is in war. Why doesn't everybody hate Alexander the Great. Or Kaiser Wilhelm. Why That is my question to you. In the perfect world there will be no war. But I will tell you one thing our world certainly isn't perfect. Thank you.
Anonymous said that their are rumours of the states declaring war on Mexico. Those rumours are certainly not true. Bush is intelligent enough to not declare war on another country. If he is having trouble in Iraq. Then why would he declare war on a bigger more powerful country. I'll state it once again Bush is a very smart man Thank you
Ummm, uh, Mrs WaTT, I also have another topic choice for you. Their has been alot of talk lately about Serbia & Montenegro splitting up to form different countries. Along with the border talk this also was a topic in our UN meeting. It will be interesting to watch how long they stay as their own country
Postman Craig has constantly stated that one day there will be no borders and we will unite. I must declare that this is impossible.l Personally I believe that even if that happened it would just ruin our world. there is always going to be protection issues. If the borders just all of a sudden were lightened up people wouldn't feel safe or somme insane thing. A country is made up of how the the people feel. If the citizens are content the country usually works well democratically whereas when the residents are unhappy the country crumbles as quick as it started> (I know that I have been talking about earlier posts lately, but I just want to state my opinion) Also Postman Great IS Presentation Thank You (Also if you didn't realise it my name is a tribute to the great philosophical thinker Socrates) Thanks Once agian
I DISAGREE, DISAGREE, DISAGREE! WAR DOES NOT BRING PEACE TO A NATION! I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO WRITE TOO MUCH BECAUSE I HAVE A TEST TOMOROW, BUT I'LL WRITE MY OPINIONS LATER.
P.S. Lately my mind has been occupied with war and peace and the future alot AND I DON'T THINK WAR'S THE WAY TO PEACE!!!
Peace is essential to our world. War is the exact opposite. War ruins peace! President Bush is wrong by bieng at war, because he not only is endangering the lives of the residents of Iraq, but is also endangering the lives of his own country! How? More sick and wild people form a grudge against him and unfortunately become a terrorist which is not humane anymore and is boiling with hatred just wanting to take savage revenge. Ockay, after the Sept. 11 incedent, I would not declare war against them, I'd just try to find only the individual terrorists and lock them up and verdict them to death, but taking my anger out on NORMAL people?! I mean at least send some decent human soldiers out there! You know how much some ordinairy people got tortured! I had NIGHTMARES about one boy named Ali who's house got bombed, and as a result lost all his family and both of his hands?! If you were one of the innocent Iraqi residents, would you still think that war leads to peace?! I also think that elminating borders from the face of this planet whom we all share is a great idea. I was just brainstorming about the many improvements in our world. You're absolutely right though. Our world definitely isn't perfect. If there were no idiotic terrorists who disgraced the Iraqis, no stupid rebel groups who are violent, no government that inores other's opinions, then maybe our world would be better. There's a whole lot more though, to having a perfect world. I ran out of time again!!
Yes war isn't essential but put yourself in the shoes of bush. This brings me to the native quote "Don't judge a man until you walk two moons in his moccasins" If you were the president in this situation, don't kid yourself into thinking that you wouldn't do the same thing that BUsh did. ANd another point is that the terrorists didn't disgrace the Iraqis. Al-qaeda bases out of Afghanistsan and Saudi Srabia. ANd the terrorists weren't the only reason the war took place> Your also forgetting that Bush would have felt threatened by Saddam hussein. He might as well have declared war while he was prepared before Iraq could. Just remember don't judge Bush until you realise what Bush has been through to make this decision. Thank You
After Some Theologial Points by great professor Simoncrates and a notwithstanding absence of me, I do believe the time has come for me to return once again to this board and give my spin on the controversial topics....
Sorry to put it bluntly, but after all I have said, Sapphire, I just don't think you get it. It would be great if you could lock terrorists up once they've done something, BUT IT JUST ISN'T THAT EASY! As I have already stated, the terrorist groups purposefully station themselves in cities to cause civillian death! They want their opposition to look bad by allowing civillians to be in harm's way. They want their bedfellows to be killed so Bush and the U.S. will have a bad image and so everyone hates them. And if you ask me, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY DID A GOOD JOB!
And remember, tracking terrorists isn't like multiplication! They keep themselves hidden, at least their main operations, it's not like they have a website saying "this is who we are, and here's our members..." No one knows who thesee people are, and where they are, and they keep moving. WEe have no idea how many there aer and even where in the world all of them are. Sure, we get to see videotapes,that they send us- months. even years after the fact! Believe me, because I have relations serving there!
And on a side note- soldiers are normal human beings. Ask any war vetran and they'll tell you. They can't even begin to tell you the horrors of it. I now people who served for the marines. As I said, I have relations, A family in which the father is off serving there as a member of the air force. And the toture- clarification- Ali's home was bombed by terrorist regimes! If you watch the news, you see that terrorists are doing that all the time. For citizens, it's a living nightmare that there own people have brought war to their country. After talking to new refugees, I foundout how glad their village felt for the U.S. to be there.
As for Simon, maybe you think that we will not be borderless. That's your opinion. But to my beliefs, it will happen, far off in the future, maybe well beyond my lifetime and those who will succeed me... but it will happen. Peace. No borders. Equality. Unity. Harmony. Anbd then the world is destryed and a new one is created. Not a literal earth, I believe. Read Revelations.
The Future will be better tomorrow....
Postman, Are you kidding I don't know how often i'm going to tell you this but peace is an impossible thing to come by. It sounds like it's an amazing thing but it will never happen. Even if countries stop fighting theres still going be other wars in the world. Even schoolyard bullying is a war on it's own. World wide peace will never happen. I would like peace as well, Yet I know that there will always be war. Yet that was a good point about the terrorists and I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank You
Hey
I KNOW that it is not easy to track the terrorists and how they want people to hat the Americans, but first of all who said I hate the U.S.? Second of all,I just want to know the reason WHY the terrorists are doing these things, and WHY are they enemies with the U.S?! Are they sick or something? They sure do annoy me! As I said, I don't know anything about politics. I'm interested about the lives of others, but not interested in the decisions that President Bush is SUPPOSEDLT forced to make. 2nd of all, eversince those idiotic terrorists committed horrifying crimes, the Iraqis might've not been disgrace, but Muslims sure have. Of course the terrorists are nothing but fake and evil, but some people like to stereotype. My muslim friend was called terrorist in PUBLIC! I also know that soldiers who don't bully normal innocent people, are ordinairy folks, which many of them are. Also, I'm confident that one day peace will come.
Yeah that Simoncrates was right, there will be no peace ruling the world, not even for one day. But what we could work on is prevent those wars from happening, in turn, to decrease the possibility. As for the decision of G. BUsh, I still don't think is a goood idea to start a war. First of all, according to my research, U.S. has been in the middle east long before the war started. To do what? Get ready for the war! And according to my other research, Bush has another secret reason to start the war. He has friends and relatives who sales military weapons, he is starting the war to transport the governments money to his friends! May-be this is not so convensing, but look at the whole US history, they had been making a whole lot of money on weapon trade. As for the terrists, the US could never track down all of them that are in this world, they have many secret hiding offices. Using a good quote of Sapphire's: Why are the terrorists the US enemy not other countries?
You don't actually believe that Bush started the war to transprt government money to his friends. By Bush being in this war he is creating some peace. I know you guys still don't understand but Imagine what Iraq would be doing if US wasn't occuping. As for USA being in the middle east before the war. They were pretty much doing what Canada is doing at the moment. And they were also protecting the oil. You guys still won't understand it but that's why you aren't the president of the United States of America. Thank you
Alright, here, let me bring in another 2-pence (that makes a total of 20 pences, if you were keeping track.)
Two things on Simoncrates account: I said that world peace is my opinion. If you say taht it won't come, fine by me. Either could be likly enough, but as I stated, humans have to evolve and improve, and peace can only be one of the highest forms of physcological evolution (the only type really possible according to me- but please let us NOT go there. I may alos want to point out that another major war 9because there will be one, no doubt I say) wil probably cause people to come to peace after seeing the devistating effects, after all, that's sometimes an inititive taken to end a war in the past.
The second thing: Simoncrates was on the right track when he said that practically everyone hates Bush for starting a war, but then tell me: Do we Hate Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan or Queen Victoria? Do we hate George Washington? Winston Churchill? All declared war. But why do we not hate them? It's because we know the outcome of the war. History revolving around those actions has already been written. We ultimately saw what became of our world because of the war they declared. In most cases, it ultimately caused good. History is still being written today. We don't know the outcome of the war on terrorism, BECAUSE IT HASN'T ENDED YET. Will it ultimately cause good? We can only hope so. History tells us that sometimes it does, most times it does. It's a very cruel way of creating change. However, when you rule out the impossible (ways of creating peace or solving a problem,) the only remaining solution, no matter how improbable of succeeding or how horrible it is, must be the solution. Unfortunate in this twisted world we live in, sometimes you are out of options, and the only solution is to use illogic (i.e. war) logically. I hope you see that I've driven home that I hate war, I don't support war, but it sometimes is inevitable.
And on an air of finality, I wish for one more point.
Remember the innocent civillians dying, and how I mentioned that the terrorists set them up. Remember we all think that Bush declared war on the nation. Does the name "Saddam Hussuin" ring in on that short crash cymbal (I'm a drummer- one track mind!) Remember, that name automatically brings the thought of "evil dictator." Does anyone know why? Because he is! He's the president of Afghanistan, and guess what he does every year? He "takes care of" those who think to oppose him. Several years ago, the Afghanistan death toll was a whopping 350,00 people. That's about the size of Kitchener "taken care of." Thsi guy was an insane dictator, committing an act so evil that what do you do with him? The worst thing of all is that he lives with it and cares less about it! He's right up there with Hitler and the motley assortment of doppelganger- causing rulers of state. Now, if you ask me, 350,00 people seems a whole lot more than who's dying now due to friendly (or not so friendly) fire that are civillians. So, perhaps one positive outcome of the war is the fact that we're getting rid of Mr. Saddam.
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
P.S. Sapphire, I wasn't attempting to say you hated the US, moreso there leader. The denizens south of the border have nothing to do with this and are concerned people like us about the situation. Sorry if you took it that way. My full apologies.
Diamond,
The whole lotta money from gun trade is actually illegal gun trading. A lot of this happens in southern states, such as Texas. Cargo hoppers will run down to the states to pick up the goods and bring them back here, to sell to gangs, such as the big Hamilton gang that just got busted, or to more local gangs liek Bloods or Crips. Interestingly enough, most of the gun shippers making the inter-border trips are actually natives living on reserves. The reserve near Caledonia was a major souce of firearms for the aforementioned Hamilton gang, the same reserve that's going to great lengths about the land slated and approved and underway for housing development. Let's reserve this topic for another post, though.
Diamond,
The whole lotta money from gun trade is actually illegal gun trading. A lot of this happens in southern states, such as Texas. Cargo hoppers will run down to the states to pick up the goods and bring them back here, to sell to gangs, such as the big Hamilton gang that just got busted, or to more local gangs liek Bloods or Crips. Interestingly enough, most of the gun shippers making the inter-border trips are actually natives living on reserves. The reserve near Caledonia was a major souce of firearms for the aforementioned Hamilton gang, the same reserve that's going to great lengths about the land slated and approved and underway for housing development. Let's reserve this topic for another post, though.
Postman Craig I know that this was an accident but it's really bothering me. Saddam Hussein actuallty was the president of Iraq. i PRETTY MUCH AGREE with him on the everything except for world peace. Everybody seems to be against me in this one. Iwould write more but i'm extremely busy. Thank You
Thanks, Simoncrates. Clearical Error. Sorry 'Bout That there.
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Postman craig, I agree with you about Saddam Hussein bieng completley evil, and there's no ifs and but on that one!! Sorry for my rudeness, but he is disgustingly, horrifyingly, tremendously ugly based on his revolting actions and life. I shiver when I hear his name. I HATE war. Saddam was at war with my country for 8 whole years. Thousands or millions even were killed. He killed innocent people as well. He even killed and released poison chemicals on one of the cities in his OWN country killing people. He is mentally sick. My brother was born at the end of that war. In my country, people are still suffering from the after effects of it. My country did not want that war. Neither did the people living in Iraq. Saddam forced it on us. Why? Because of oil. Selfishness. Land. Money. Power. Words that I hate. How would the world be like I wonder, if those words did not exist in matter and ideal form? Would the world be different?
I know that this is going to be controversial but, you guys said that Saddam is terrible, I disagree, No I don't think that he is a good leader or that he's made good decisions. As a world leader it is your job to make the decisions in the best decision for the country. You can't hold it against him he has done some good things. To many Arabs he still is considered a hero. He is considered a hero for standing up against the Israelis, and the Americans. Now i'm not saying this was a good thing but let's shine light on some of the things he did that others find impressive. There it's out. I just had to say that, Yes Saddam has done some terrible things, Yet some of it is just Propaganda put out by the government. It's up to you to decide what is right or worong. Most of it really happened but not all of it. Thank You
Even if he has done some things that were impressive, the bad things that he's done are so terrible that they've just drowned the good things in the sea of bad things that thet've formed. It has made me go blind in seeing the impressive things that he's done. Their quality has just disappeared. It's really interesting, because all humans are born as innocent babies, and some grow to be despised and frightening. Even Hitler was born innocent! Perhaps it depends on how we're raised.
P.S. Have you noticed that this blog concerning to borders has led to many many other conversation?!
I think that sapphire hs a really good point. Even though the "bad guys" were born innocent all the bad they have done for the world has drowned out the good. Sooo.... Maybe its just us and we need to focus on the GOOD things that people do or maybe its them and the "bad guys" who need to accualy think about what they are doing before they do it.
Well gotta go and listen to some of the interesting beleifs of the world!!
About evil people... how does one become that way? Is it nature, or nurture? I believe the latter. If I was raised on the streets, I would probably be a whole different person, alienated from the guy you know as the other guyw ho rights long posts and likes GarageBand. Next to none of my characteristics would exist. And that's because of circumstances. What happens to you effects how you react to future situations. We can only expect that Mr. Saddam had a horrible childhood, and wants revenge on that life by bringing it out on others. Perhaps the same is with schoolyard bullies, civil criminals, etc. etc. What would really help him is if someone could tell him a differnent way, but he may have heard such and shut his ears from that. It's a very interesting Theological debate.
Wouldn't it be great though, if people who had hard childhoods learned from their experience and tried to help others who had similar problems later on in life? I beleive people like that do exist fortunately, like Opera.
Some do exist, but unfortunately, it takes effort for people to have a mindset to think that way. It takes effort for us to help others, which is what we should do. Unfortuantely, our minds are focused on self- centeredness, and most people without support in childhood will continue to think that way. In fact, nearly all of society is like that. We who don't are like the marines- The Few. The Proud. The Humble.
Hahahaha... not funny.
I agree with you. Good thinking.
You think that all bad people were broughty up in bad homes. I disagree. You guys have mentioned Hitler. He wasn't brought up in a bad home. Til' he was around 18 he was a peaceful painter. Yet he was rejected that is why he joined the Nazi Party. Thank YOu
My NAme was supposed to spell Simoncrates not simocrates, grammatical error. If you were wondering that is a Tribute to Socrates. Thank YOu
Simoncrates.....your comments always make me think, and this time, you make me want to know more about Hitler's youth. I didn't know about the 'peaceful painter' period. In response to your comment, I think society needs to be careful about the criteria chosen when defining a home as 'good' or 'bad'. There are many people who have been raised in homes that look very 'good' to an outsider, but may look a little different to the children living within them. I have always been fascinated with the 'nature / nurture' debate, but now, I must do some homework......I'll get back to you with my comments about Adolph the boy...
An artist indeed.....I confess I didn't realize how prolific he was....
"...... he is estimated to have created between 2000 and 3000 drawings, watercolors, and oil paintings. His artistic talent revealed itself at an early age and continued painting and drawing throughout his life. Even while behind the front lines in World War 1, he continued to paint in his spare time and contributed instructional drawings and cartoons to the military newspaper. His art continued throughout his leadership of Germany and included detailed building plans, furniture design, city planning, and monuments."
I knew that! I wonder why I never thought to mention that.... he was also Catholic, refused submittence into the Art School he wanted to go to, and served as a sergeant (and got shot) in the Austrian Army during the Great War.
Some Food for thought....
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
I Know that this hAS NOTHING TO DO WITH What is going on right now. But everyone hates Bush for war. Well i have a point to make. USA has been in more than 5+ international wars in the past 25v years. And nobody hates them for that. Also good history about Hitler. Yes he was a Christian. Although he was half Jewish. Thank You
There is a burning question occuring around this growing issue. Not quite sure what it is. Bin' trying to put my finger on it but just can't! Anyone have the realllll burning question please reply to me!
Hitler has always been so confusing and mysterious to think about! Some say he had mental problems, and others ay he hated going to the synagogue when he was younger. I really don't know. Also, I don't think people hate President Bush for just war, there's other reasons as well probably. Like the speeches he gives about Iran not bieng free. I mean how DARE he comment on a country that he's never set foot in?!
I'm not sure whether or not Bush has set foot in Iran or not. Either way, he probably doesn't have eough knowledge to formally declare whether or not it is "free" or not.
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
Wow guys... I haven't been watching this post and it totally shocked me to read all the stuff that you debaters have said. like it went from border discussions to USA and the East in 60 posts! I know absolutely nothing about politics and not even anything about the things being debated here... I don't even watch the news... sad. but anyways, I'd still like to give my opinion on all of this intriguing discussion.
I think that borders will never be totally erased. I mean, look at our world. you live in a certain # house on a certain street in a certain neighbourhood in a certain city in a certain region in a certain area in a certain province/territory/state in a certain COUNTRY!! all of these things are borders of sorts and if you erase all borders, then no one would be able to tell their location.
......................................................................
It's like trying to tell the person beside you which dot out of the ones above you chose; but without being able to use the words "left" "right" "up"
"down" or any numbers. with no point of reference you cannot know where you are or even your relative size. i mean, if you were the only thing in the world, how would you know if you were really small or really big? you could have a big debate on that.
What i've been tring to say is... erase all borders and you have no way for people to identify their position on the Earth.
anyways, got to go do homework..
Bye!
*km*
I know what you mean by the different discussions! I just gotta go do homework, can't write anymore!
*KM*, Trying to tell some one where a point is is called geography. A border is place ON a geographic location, but doesn't create a new one. A home is a dwelling so that you can comfortly live; things like doors were intended originally to keep pests out, but not people. In a world without borders, the only thing you wouldn't need are locks. Fences wouldn't be required; streets exist wit hhousing units that our numbered for ease of finding the location of someone's dwelling. Streets also exist primary for any easy, level surface to travel over. Cities exist because that's where reasources were, or easy access to waterways etc.
But, if a world didn't have borders, you technically would be lost. We could have a giant goverment with sub- departments to handle regional affairs; a giant democratic tapestry. Cities would exist still, and countries would instead be 'districts' of the world. An example of this practise would be New York there is the Bronx district, etc, but it's still New York city.
Ther still would be points of reference, because cities would still exist. Continents would still exist. Regions of land still exist. How about when early nations first settled land? THey had no points of reference. And they certainly weren't lost, because you couldn't get lost, since you would just consistantly explore. We have the whole wolrd discovered now, we know what it' like and what's where, so it would be impossible to lose your sense of where you are. Think about it: If this happened overnight, you aren't going to wake up and say, "Oh, no! I don't now where I am!" Because you are still in your house. Everything doesn't become alienated.
Rocking On,
Postman Craig
I agree with you, even it does seem almost impossible. But I beleive it'll happen. Can't write much at the moment.
I will tell you one thing tax money isn't going into this
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